Speaker 1: 0:00

The episode you're about to watch is a heavy one. It's an important story that needs to be shared. Also, trigger warning the episode does contain stories about sexual abuse and drug use. Also, this guest has difficulty remembering timelines and dates, and that's because of the life she's led and her condition, understandably so. But I did walk through this story a couple times with her beforehand and actually right before we started filming and recording, I walked through it with her again. So you'll notice that I am kind of leading and coaching and prompting her a little bit more than I would normally do. But at any rate, I hope you enjoy the episode. I hope it can make a change or a difference. I hope it can give a little insight into the life that she did live. So, without further ado, let's do this, with all credit for coming today. All new to us depend on skin health, someics, whatnot. Finally, back to the story. Just one thing I wanted to say and, bringivia, to welcome you to the world. You're queen of Patricia. That Carrillas is very conservative, it Okay. Thank you for tuning in to the Redacted podcast.

Speaker 1: 1:42

My name is Matt, back behind the scenes, sworn to secrecy For our anonymous guest. We have Pamela. She's working the audio board and the video editing and making funny faces at us. We have our guest in today. She's got a hell of a story, really, really incredible story. You almost wouldn't believe it. Very tough life, and she's agreed to come on and share some of this with us today, which we're fortunate to have you. We spoke a little bit, so we spoke before this and we spoke on the phone and we kind of went over the outline of your story. We didn't get through all the details, but why don't we kind of start at the beginning of your life here? So you were born in Indianapolis.

Speaker 2: 2:36

Yes, I was.

Speaker 1: 2:38

And that was kind of a rough childhood even there right, it was a rough childhood.

Speaker 2: 2:47

My mom was into drugs and alcohol, so it was a lot of chaos.

Speaker 1: 2:53

A lot of chaos. And this is. You said that you would kind of live in bars and your mom was a go-go dancer. What are some of your memories of that?

Speaker 2: 3:06

Just always being in a closet kind of stuffed away and maybe having a VCR and a TV on to keep me occupied. I was never in the limelight, but I somehow knew what was going on.

Speaker 1: 3:24

You knew what your mother did, or you knew.

Speaker 2: 3:27

Yeah, I just knew like we were in a bar setting and she was working, as said, or dancing. Just eerie how children just know things.

Speaker 1: 3:38

And this is like your, I would say probably some of your first memories, four or five years old, right, right, really tough At that age. I mean, that's all you knew, so you probably didn't think much of it.

Speaker 2: 3:55

Right, because that's my heart the innocence of a child. You never think Is this supposed to be right. You just think, hmm, okay.

Speaker 1: 4:04

Yeah, it's really messed up. And then so she was living in bars. She was a go-go dancer, addicted to drugs. What kind of drugs was she doing at that time, or did you?

Speaker 2: 4:15

I would say crack and a lot of drinking of beer. Like cases and cases.

Speaker 1: 4:21

So alcohol and crack, and this is probably mid to early 80s, right, we're talking about she would pass out or take off for days and weeks at a time. And leaving you where, just wherever.

Speaker 2: 4:40

Wherever I was at, whether it be a motel, a room, a closet, and you were just kind of left to fend for yourself. My dad once told me that when I was a week old, she left me with people and forgot who they were, and they moved out of state. Jesus.

Speaker 1: 4:58

And they, just, you just got left behind.

Speaker 2: 5:02

Well, they took me with them to Kentucky and then somehow my dad said where is she at?

Speaker 1: 5:09

That's not right.

Speaker 2: 5:10

It's like I forgot where I put her and then he went neighbor door to door and they moved out of state with her.

Speaker 1: 5:18

Yeah, yeah, jeez. So your memories of this, do you remember some of that?

Speaker 2: 5:28

Not the out of state. I was a week old, but the drinking and like watching people she'd invite over. They'd be drinking ketchup, thinking it was beer. You know I would get so drunk that they're just drinking whatever's there.

Speaker 1: 5:45

Jeez and you were. You shared with me when we spoke earlier about this that you were kind of left, you remember, like eating grass.

Speaker 2: 5:53

Right, right. I remember there never was anything in the cupboard.

Speaker 1: 5:58

And you were just kind of putting whatever you could in your stomach.

Speaker 2: 6:02

Right, I remember dumping out a box of cereal and nothing but bugs coming out Jeez.

Speaker 1: 6:10

Cockroaches or something Right. Cockroaches, yeah, jeez.

Speaker 2: 6:15

It was one of my favorite cereals back then, Lucky Charms, and I was like oh yeah, there's something and oh no.

Speaker 1: 6:24

That's really horrible.

Speaker 2: 6:25

It is.

Speaker 1: 6:26

And then you know, going through that kind of stuff, and then this is well still an indie. So you're five, six, seven, you're still an indie.

Speaker 2: 6:37

And then and then you're fighting like dad and mom would be fighting a lot. The cops would come. Mom's arm got broken by the cops all in front of me, jeez yeah. And then dad said I can't take her, you're going to have to take her with you. I got to go to work.

Speaker 1: 6:57

Okay. So he's he's working moms.

Speaker 2: 7:00

Like so they were fighting, and then the cops had to take me, and so mom went to jail and I went to wherever. I don't remember Wherever mom went I don't remember, because I remember them fighting and I remember her going to jail and dad saying she can't stay here, I have to work. And the cop says it's your fucking daughter, jeez.

Speaker 1: 7:24

Yeah, jeez, that's, that's just. That's so hard to hear that.

Speaker 2: 7:29

It's harder to watch them beat her up Really, really.

Speaker 1: 7:33

I remember that I mean she's quite everything. I mean she's still your mother, you don't.

Speaker 2: 7:38

I don't know. I will.

Speaker 1: 7:40

Yeah, and then during this time you said you know your mom would be around different men or with different men, and some of them would less you.

Speaker 2: 7:50

Yes, she would pass out and they would be like my toy is, you know, indisposed, and here's something else.

Speaker 1: 7:59

So Do you remember this quite often, or was it just a few? I?

Speaker 2: 8:03

remember quite a few occasions but one initially pretty extensively, where I woke up and the guy had my pants, panties down you know a young child just wearing a t-shirt and panties and he was going down on me, jesus, and to be honest, I've never really enjoyed that sense because of that.

Speaker 1: 8:30

Understandably.

Speaker 2: 8:31

Well, it's traumatic stress.

Speaker 1: 8:33

Completely understandably, and I mean that's, that's horrifying that you could be five, six, seven years old, and I mean having you endure this and I mean I have kids that age are older than that, and I can't even.

Speaker 2: 8:49

I just remember.

Speaker 1: 8:51

Turns my stomach.

Speaker 2: 8:54

Somehow it stopped. And then I got up and went to my mom's room and I just remember him saying come back out here, you know, come hang out and watch TV with me. And I'm like, yeah, right.

Speaker 1: 9:06

So you knew something was definitely fishy.

Speaker 2: 9:08

Right, you know that wasn't. You don't know it's evil, you just know that's.

Speaker 1: 9:12

That's no good, that's not right, right, yes, so then At some point so maybe it was seven or eight you, you and your mother, left for Florida.

Speaker 2: 9:27

Some hated the cold. So she said we're going to Florida and we're going to hitchhike. So we hitchhiked.

Speaker 1: 9:36

What did your and your dad still around somewhere. What did he?

Speaker 2: 9:40

he didn't enter. I mean, my mom was like a wild horse, she just didn't tame her.

Speaker 1: 9:46

Yeah, so she just packed up and you guys started hitchhiking down to Florida. Right, what are your? Do you have any memories of that?

Speaker 2: 9:55

I got memory of being in a van and it getting pulled over and mom saying look at, look at the cops, so this guy doesn't get a ticket and give them the sad face. Just look out the window so they know that there's a kid in there. She's like, I'm not sad.

Speaker 1: 10:13

Yeah, you know, gotta play it, get out, I just remember feeling like it was dishonest.

Speaker 2: 10:20

you know, like I couldn't as a kid. You're kind of naturally, naturally, Honestly honest yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:26

You don't know. I've heard like kids don't understand lying Right. It doesn't make sense to them yeah. Yeah, as far as to why, like, why would you lie? They'll lie about stuff to you know, not getting trouble in things when they get older, but just general lying.

Speaker 2: 10:44

Like to be an actor all of a sudden.

Speaker 1: 10:46

Yeah. That's not going to work. Yeah, you hitchhike down to Florida and then you end up living in a motel with your mother.

Speaker 2: 10:58

And I remember these people sitting in a corner and it was the funniest smell in the world and that was crack cocaine.

Speaker 1: 11:06

That was at the hotel or the motel.

Speaker 2: 11:07

Yeah, yeah. They'd be sitting in a little like a circle and watching them. You know, smoke it and I just remember the smell. It was like burnt plastic.

Speaker 1: 11:21

You can still smell that.

Speaker 2: 11:23

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:25

And that was the first exposure you had.

Speaker 2: 11:28

The first like real strong memory of like that's a smell and that's you know, and these people were like zombie doubt on this glass pipe thing going on. You know, yeah, and I remember sitting on the steps my mom would go in and I guess, turn tricks and so she started prostituting once you got down here and continued to use crack.

Speaker 2: 11:58

And I also remember her saying do you know what I do in there? And I said you jump on the bed with men. So I knew what she did, but I didn't know how to word it.

Speaker 1: 12:09

Yeah, Jump on the bed, you know, In a sense of a little kid right Kid living in this world right, which to a lot of people I think is just unimaginable to kind of think about. But I mean you, you went through this and I think maybe to you it doesn't seem as shocking.

Speaker 2: 12:31

No, because when I had kids I ended up being an addict, but I kept them far from it because they were pure and I didn't want them tainted.

Speaker 1: 12:42

So then, what do you remember? That Motel? You said your mom had a friend, maybe that she had made another prostitute.

Speaker 2: 12:52

Right, she was raped and my mom came to her defense and she had a boyfriend and he would say that somebody was going to snatch me in the bushes and get my butt and that scared me.

Speaker 1: 13:07

He said that to you is kind of a warning.

Speaker 2: 13:09

Yeah, like don't come out here at dusk or something, because those bushes, somebody will snatch you up and hurt you. I think it was a warning. I don't think it was traumatic as it sounds.

Speaker 1: 13:25

That part. But the fact once again to you but to the audience to have a little girl have to be warned about, that is just, it gives way to. What a disturbing environment. This is what a disturbing kind of world.

Speaker 2: 13:42

The landlord giving me soup in a bag because she knew I had an eight and that was like a little kindness, you remember. She also met a dude that sold toys and he gave me some toys, like a John or something. I remember that. So then you're living there with your mother for a little while, and you said that you remembered people watching you like I remember a redheaded guy that was like kind of watching from afar and another lady, and they turned out to be child investigators. Child investigators, yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:32

And they were. Somebody had alerted them, maybe that you were.

Speaker 2: 14:36

Was there other kids in the hotel, in this hotel?

Speaker 1: 14:39

No, wasn't a place for kids.

Speaker 2: 14:41

No, I was neglected and underweight, matter of fact, when they took me, they said you're underweight and I said I'm on a diet man.

Speaker 1: 14:53

At eight years old or something you're like I'm on a diet.

Speaker 2: 14:55

Right, that's how savvy I was even then.

Speaker 1: 14:58

Jeez. So this is this ended up being HRS, right Is what you call.

Speaker 2: 15:05

We moved a couple blocks from the motel in with another gentleman and I just remember playing with my toys out front in the cops all pulling up and picking me up off the big wheel and put me in the car and that was the last time I saw her. Jeez, I don't know how long between that time she was murdered.

Speaker 1: 15:29

To the gender, to being murdered later. Yeah, that was. But before that you were taken from your mom, you were put into what you said was like a shelter home.

Speaker 2: 15:41

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:42

Okay, it's like a temporary.

Speaker 2: 15:44

It's like a bigger house with like 12 kids and a big table and maybe it's retrofit for that many people. It's just vague memories, but a little kid knocked my tooth out accidentally and just remember the case worker holding all the blood.

Speaker 1: 16:01

The case worker and showed up to yeah, yeah, she was.

Speaker 2: 16:04

she was there with me trying to.

Speaker 1: 16:07

Integration me. And yeah, you got your tooth knocked out right away.

Speaker 2: 16:11

It was hanging by the thread and you know we salvaged it, but it was very traumatic and a lot of blood.

Speaker 1: 16:22

And was this the case? Worker, you said you that worked with you for a long time, or that you, I still know?

Speaker 2: 16:28

her.

Speaker 1: 16:29

You still know her and you had a pretty good relationship. She seemed to wonderful relationship.

Speaker 2: 16:35

She took me to Bush Gardens and she ended up quitting HRS because children were getting raped in foster homes and she couldn't save them. So she was like I'm taking them from the fire to the Crying pan, yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:51

That's got to be really tough. That's going to be a tough job to have.

Speaker 2: 16:54

Yeah, she had a. I think she became a whistleblower for them.

Speaker 1: 16:58

Really, yeah, but she was kind of a bright spot, yes, in your life. Yes, okay, yes. So then you went from the shelter home and then you found or went to what would become your permanent foster home, so to speak.

Speaker 2: 17:16

Right.

Speaker 1: 17:17

And this was a family or a husband, wife.

Speaker 2: 17:20

A husband and a wife that could not. It seemed like they had a problem having kids and they just wanted children, you know, when they wanted a complete family. Okay, they were very good people and taught me a lot of etiquette and stuff that I had never been around, so they cared about you a lot. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:42

And were you the only kid there at first, or was there it?

Speaker 2: 17:45

was the only kid and then there was a couple others, and one other was pretty bad and she went back to the bad situation. I guess her cousin was a squirmer. Was a what Screwing her? Oh geez, and like the family knew about it, or something.

Speaker 1: 18:05

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:08

So and it broke the family's heart when that girl went back to her family. Yeah, and then they had another one that I think they still know him too, but he went back to his family, but it wasn't such an extreme situation.

Speaker 1: 18:23

Okay, so then you're there for a little while, and then this is the point when you find out that your mother was killed or murdered. Yes, when you're living with this permanent family.

Speaker 2: 18:38

I had a therapist that come every week and we would, you know, talk about the week, the traumas, the anything. And she showed up on a Sunday, which was out of character, and she showed up with the stuffed animal. So she said I have something to tell you.

Speaker 1: 18:59

It's okay.

Speaker 2: 19:00

And I want you to sit down on the couch. And she hands me the stuffed animal and she says your mom has been hurt, real bad. And I said she's dead, isn't she? You already know it. She let a bad life. Yeah, even as a kid I knew that it was bad. So I just started hugging this stuffed animal and she said I brought it to you so you could tear it apart. And I said I just want to hold it, just wanted to hold it.

Speaker 1: 19:44

It's just horrible and you think we don't have to get into that, but you think she was murdered by a John Right.

Speaker 2: 19:54

So I said what happened? They said she's been hurt real bad and I said she's dead. Yes, and they said she was shot and run over repeatedly.

Speaker 1: 20:05

So and they told you that at the time.

Speaker 2: 20:08

I'm pretty sure. Yeah, in the next memory I remember in this time line is going in my foster parent's room and seeing the pictures of her grave and her earn like on their dresser and I started crying and went to sit at the table and I looked up and she was standing there. So it was smiling and I ran from that image. But I think that was her. Let me know if she was okay.

Speaker 1: 20:51

So that had to be Shocking. Very very traumatic, yeah, and then after that at some point you went back to Indianapolis to be with your aunt, and this was your father's sister, okay, and she did the best she could, but she had a lot of traumas and emotional issues and they didn't mix well with my issues.

Speaker 2: 21:23

So some incidents happened and I called the police and I was removed from there.

Speaker 1: 21:29

And this was like 11 or 12.

Speaker 2: 21:30

you said Right and I ended up in an orphanage in the inner cities and I have orphanages and it was 12 or 13 black children about the same age, women or girls, and initially they liked me and then they didn't, and then they beat me up and threw me down the stairs.

Speaker 1: 21:55

And how long were you in the orphanage?

Speaker 2: 21:58

Maybe a month, and then I was back down to Florida.

Speaker 1: 22:02

With your permanent foster family Right. Okay, the good ones, yes.

Speaker 2: 22:07

Yes, the original ones, okay. And then they started the adoption process shortly after and I remember when my name started changing the last name, I started really rebelling because I didn't think that they would really accept me. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:27

And you didn't. You probably didn't like the name change, but did that stick out.

Speaker 2: 22:31

I think it was like a self sabotage so like if you're these people can't really love me. I'm not their blood.

Speaker 1: 22:39

Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2: 22:42

So they're and they might have been semi pregnant or something. So then that might have triggered thinking that once they have their real kid and I'm going to want the fake kid- so your foster mom might have been pregnant at this point.

Speaker 1: 22:57

Yeah, did she end up being pregnant?

Speaker 2: 22:59

Yeah, they're having their own children, thank God. Okay, because I didn't really accept the love that was given. I didn't know how to.

Speaker 1: 23:10

And that was something that kind of struck me when we were talking about this. They were showing you care, like you were well cared for, well fed, right, looked after you, had, you know, a stable mother and father figure, and they were showing you what love was. But you, because of what you had gone through in the trauma, I didn't trust it.

Speaker 2: 23:34

I didn't trust it. It was like an act. You know, maybe it's an act, yeah, and then I have some problems with math. So three hours of long division and I hit my foster dad with a chair.

Speaker 1: 23:50

Geez, he's just like trying to make you do your homework, or something.

Speaker 2: 23:55

He just said I know you know how to do it. And I said no, I thought I knew.

Speaker 1: 23:59

Yeah, geez.

Speaker 2: 24:02

Then I went to the hospital for a month. Just lashing out and you ended up you know in a Baker act for a little while. The Baker at what's like a mental institution for somebody who might be needs some medication adjustment or arrest.

Speaker 1: 24:19

Okay, so you know this lashing out behavior. You said that you'd started running away.

Speaker 2: 24:28

It's a lot in pot, and this is like 12 to 14 cigarettes and went to a mental institution after multiple times of not being able to adhere to the program, whether it be school or you know, not running away, not running away. So then I was in a year mental lockdown institution. It's like a jail, but where you get your meds managed and you know therapy and all that. But very troubled children, very volatile children, was hit in the face with a basketball the first time I showed up.

Speaker 1: 25:09

Kind of set a bad tone, huh.

Speaker 2: 25:11

Yeah, he got slammed on the ground, so he figured out that you might want to hit somebody else.

Speaker 1: 25:17

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:19

Well you're tough, then it's not going to be bashed in head with the basketball. That should hurt, oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:26

No, no, so um, you're in this, so it's like a mental health place inpatient longterm.

Speaker 2: 25:36

And I had a crush and I forgot to tell you that the guy said he wished he would have killed my mom. So I tried to fight him and he kicked me in the face and broke my nose.

Speaker 1: 25:46

There was a guy at the inpatient place that said he wished he would have killed your mom no-transcript.

Speaker 2: 25:52

Playing boyfriend girlfriend and somehow had a spat and he was two or three years older than me.

Speaker 1: 25:59

Oh geez.

Speaker 2: 26:01

Yeah, so when we started arguing and wrestling, I tripped over a root and I looked up and he kicked me in the face, geez, and he broke my nose, geez, like just you know everywhere, so.

Speaker 1: 26:14

So this isn't a good place. No, no being in this facility.

Speaker 2: 26:18

No, because the staff members were right there, you would have thought they would have intervened before he had a field. Go on my face, yeah, yeah, geez.

Speaker 1: 26:28

So then you're in there for a year and then you graduated, you said yes, Passed the program or passed the treatment period, and you went back to your now. This is now you're adopted family Right.

Speaker 2: 26:42

Okay, I think that the adoptions process kind of stopped. But yes, I went back to them and I did not adhere to the program. I kept running away and smoking pot and got pregnant.

Speaker 1: 26:56

So this is.

Speaker 2: 26:57

By the time I was 15.

Speaker 1: 26:58

About 15, 16 years old. All this is going on.

Speaker 2: 27:02

Right.

Speaker 1: 27:02

And you ended up getting pregnant.

Speaker 2: 27:05

Yep, and then they sent me back to that facility and I said it's not safe being pregnant.

Speaker 1: 27:11

And this was just with a boyfriend or something. Yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 27:15

Based on that, Somebody that I was crazy about that wasn't crazy about me, but yes, and luckily those people got me out of that facility because I thought you know that won't survive in there.

Speaker 1: 27:29

Pregnant, yeah, not pregnant. So your boyfriend at the time his you said his parents got you.

Speaker 2: 27:37

Kind of stepped in and I was emancipated to them.

Speaker 1: 27:41

Okay and then. So you went to go live with them now, and now you're, you're pregnant, right, and you have the, the baby, eventually.

Speaker 2: 27:53

Right.

Speaker 1: 27:53

And you said you were living on a little kind of small crappy house that they had on some property. They Right.

Speaker 2: 28:02

So my mom had death benefits, so I got like 395 or something and it wasn't that much. But I think his family said we have a place, it's 110 a week, okay, okay. And I said, well, we don't have any income other than this check and I will give it to you. We moved in there and I wasn't there seven days before the house caught on fire and it killed my daughter In the middle of the night. I just woke up and the house was on fire and we couldn't get to her. It was in her room.

Speaker 1: 28:40

How old was she?

Speaker 2: 28:41

at this. She was three and a half months old and we didn't. We were young, I was 16. I think he was 20. Didn't have smoke alarms, didn't have screens, didn't have faucets or handles. You know, it's just a place that probably was uninhabitable, but it was a place to live. It's probably all wood Wood, yes, Big, big like the, you know big, but it burned up in five minutes.

Speaker 1: 29:11

So you got out of the house while the fire was going on.

Speaker 2: 29:16

I woke up and I was like the house is on fire, we must save the baby, we must crawl on the ground because I could tell by how the smoke was burning me that it was intense. And it's just flames everywhere and people say, oh, I would have done this. You can't walk through fire, man, never.

Speaker 1: 29:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:36

Ain't? Nobody can walk through fire, not eight foot tall fire. Yeah, it doesn't work. So you can say what you would have done, but the reality is your body will not walk through it. So we didn't save her and his hair caught on fire, and it was your boyfriend's hair caught on fire. Yeah, while trying to get out, or while trying to go back, trying to crawl towards her room in the back draft shot out of that room, you know, like the back draft on the movies.

Speaker 1: 30:06

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:08

It really happens.

Speaker 1: 30:10

Yeah, yeah, and I've never experienced a house fire. It's a war, luckily, and I don't think a lot of people have, and it's probably, like you said, one of those things, thank God for smoke alarms, but we didn't have any Exactly.

Speaker 2: 30:24

But if we had had some we'd have been all right, mm-hmm. But I think God thought my baby was too precious to be in that chaos and turmoil. Okay, and that's the consolation I get, that she achieved whatever she needed in a short time. She was a baby of sunshine you know, always happy. In the midst of that, some other family members came to my aid and they drug her around because she.

Speaker 1: 30:52

This is while the fire was still going on.

Speaker 2: 30:54

Correct. So the fire's still going on, and victims advocates said can I call somebody for you? And I said yeah, you can call my step mom or such and such.

Speaker 1: 31:06

You had a previous foster mom.

Speaker 2: 31:07

you said this is another one, that, but not that same family.

Speaker 1: 31:12

Okay.

Speaker 2: 31:14

So they called her and she came and she let everybody know what she thought of them and their dwellings that were uninhabitable, to be rented.

Speaker 1: 31:23

So she was sticking up for you a little bit or trying to. Yes, probably angry.

Speaker 2: 31:29

Accountability Situation Correct. And they started dragging her around by her four footed hair or whatever, geez. And I said, isn't it bad enough? The baby's dead, can't we just be cool? And they said, oh and yeah. What if you had something to do with it? And I said I don't even know what to say to that. I was just in shock. I mean, they could have done a roundhouse on my face and I wouldn't have flinched because Shocked at that accusation.

Speaker 1: 32:00

Well, and something horrible just happened and they're trying to escape goat.

Speaker 2: 32:04

Yeah. I mean, and then it was just a bunch of chaos and fighting.

Speaker 1: 32:09

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:10

And cars and buildings catching on fire and trees 50 feet in the air. Yeah, it's very horrible. It's like a very chaotic scene, right, so say, if there's 30 people with the big old fire man.

Speaker 1: 32:27

No.

Speaker 2: 32:27

And some of them had been drinking, so they were all drunk.

Speaker 1: 32:31

Oh geez. Sounds like a hell of a scene.

Speaker 2: 32:35

Yep, it was.

Speaker 1: 32:37

And it probably didn't even give you time to process what had just happened. No, process, because you're right out of getting out of the fire, finding out you can't get the baby out and then this whole and the flames are still going, and then this whole scene unfolds, with people fighting and geez.

Speaker 2: 32:59

And I was trying to get everybody to be at peace, but yeah, it just went bad.

Speaker 1: 33:06

So the after effects of this and living with this was really traumatic for you. And that's when another bad path kind of started with you. You'd said after that and that's when, I guess, you had a friend that had introduced you to crack at that point, which was the same thing.

Speaker 2: 33:32

A friend that had gotten a I think it was a settlement and he said, well, let's just get a whole bunch of stuff. And I'm like, well, I'd rather go spend the money at the mall, but I'm down for whatever, because I have no support system, no life. I think the boyfriend broke up with me, told me how the cat was killed by his sister. The cat was a scapegoat for the fire, unfortunately.

Speaker 1: 33:59

Well, you were so just to go back to that, so that makes sense. It was a candle, a citronella candle, that had ended up starting the fire.

Speaker 2: 34:10

that we think we never really came to all that. We know that they said there was a box fan in the crib because this place had no air condition, no fans, no windows, no screens, no nothing.

Speaker 1: 34:25

Well, there's windows but no screen.

Speaker 2: 34:27

Yeah, so you couldn't get the air flow and an older adult put the citronella candle in there and I thought that's probably not a good idea, but she's like 15 years older than me, so I'm going to trust an adult's judgment.

Speaker 1: 34:47

And then the cat. So from what?

Speaker 2: 34:51

you were saying to catch back at the cat was blamed, that the woman had her guilt. So she took it out on the cat. So she put the candle in and put the baby to bed because that day relatives had her, you know, consoling her. She had a teething thing or something and me and my boyfriend they're like you know, can you help us out? She's really going nuts. So they put her to bed and they put the citronella candle and I went to check and I had like a notion from God to move it and I said you know, but the adult, she put her in here.

Speaker 1: 35:30

So I'm going to you know you were trusting.

Speaker 2: 35:33

Right right.

Speaker 1: 35:34

Yeah, and I mean at its face, it seems like a good idea if you're getting mosquitoes in the house with the baby.

Speaker 2: 35:42

And I had been warned that if there was more bites they were going to remove her. So I thought we were all doing like a collaboration and I'm going to keep the baby safe and I'm going to go along with the adults.

Speaker 1: 35:56

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 35:56

So then at some point after that, back to the, when your drug use started with crack and you had that friend that had introduced you to it and yeah, he got a settlement and we just, you know, I think he had 11 grand and somehow we ended up in a motel and we pretty much just rocked out literally, and I think we felt like at the end, when the money was running out, that we were going to maybe die because we were probably addicted after all that, you know, just non-stop stuff.

Speaker 1: 36:35

So Well, and by this point that you I mean you can feel the claws of the addiction.

Speaker 2: 36:44

Right, you can't. You can't stop. You're locked up in this motel and you're like how do you even go back to real life and function? You know, are we going to be like? And we were like going to have a suicide pact. It was just crazy.

Speaker 1: 36:59

It's crazy. What did it feel like at first I mean your first time using crack. What did that feel like?

Speaker 2: 37:05

It felt too good.

Speaker 1: 37:06

Too good.

Speaker 2: 37:09

If I did it off and on for 20, 30 years, it had to have a catch. It's the most powerful thing I've ever dealt with.

Speaker 1: 37:17

That makes a lot of sense and that's a very kind of poignant way to say that is it's too good.

Speaker 2: 37:24

It's the best tie there is unfortunately.

Speaker 1: 37:27

Yeah, so your 17 first experience you're in a hotel room using crack, and then how did that felt like? Now we need more crack after.

Speaker 2: 37:42

Yeah, yeah, and I think that I went for a walk and somebody picked me up and I turned my first trick or something, but I associated the walks with being able to get money and somehow kept that addiction going.

Speaker 2: 37:59

So you're walking along the streets at yeah, and I think that you know it's probably dressed a little provocatively or something and somebody picked me up and I don't really remember that. But you know I remember bits and pieces more like me and him sitting there and running out of money and instead of using the razor to cut up the drugs, we're about to cut our wrist.

Speaker 1: 38:23

Yeah, geez. So and you're living in the hotel with your boyfriend.

Speaker 2: 38:30

Wait, it's a friend or a friend? Yeah, we weren't.

Speaker 1: 38:33

Smoking crack, and now you're prostituting.

Speaker 2: 38:36

Right.

Speaker 1: 38:37

And turning tricks to get more crack To support the habit.

Speaker 2: 38:40

Yeah, it kind of goes hand in hand. When you do demeaned things, you want to escape it, and if your addiction is cracked, that's how you're going to escape it. You know you're going to get high and say, well, I'm going to forget about it for a minute. You know what? Whatever I had to do, or whatever, I will do.

Speaker 1: 39:01

And that's kind of a cycle within it.

Speaker 2: 39:03

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:04

And it seems like it's the acts you do to get the drugs make you need the drugs.

Speaker 2: 39:12

And then the cycle continues. The shame, the shame of what you had to do to get it.

Speaker 1: 39:16

Yeah Right, I mean that's and I think that's kind of a theme with your story or with addiction in general, and probably a lot of people's stories and then your childhood, growing up your mother addicted to crack prostituting.

Speaker 2: 39:35

Right and the cycle I saw.

Speaker 1: 39:36

Now, here you are.

Speaker 2: 39:38

Well, that was all I saw.

Speaker 1: 39:40

It should have been baking cookies.

Speaker 2: 39:42

I might have started baking cookies, but we weren't baking cookies or baking crack. You know, that's the first thing. I saw it Five, six. First thing I smelled. You know, I remember the intense smell.

Speaker 1: 39:55

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:56

Yeah, I remember the burnt plastic. I went what the heck?

Speaker 1: 40:02

So this continued through you know, 17, 18, 19, 20, into your 20s.

Speaker 2: 40:09

And then you said you would and I had a lot of rest, you know. So it was minor, minor stuff. But if you get arrested four or five times in a week, you know, then people say, oh, I know you, I just arrested you yesterday. So it's all petty stuff. But when you got, it adds up, yeah, yeah. So then it becomes three misdemeanors or felonies, and imagine never hurting anybody, never stealing, but going to prison.

Speaker 1: 40:40

And that's kind of the the hard part about addiction, your story, addiction and prostitution is in a. In a sense, you're only hurting yourself and within that context, If it's just drug usage and prostitution, yeah, I didn't steal, I didn't kill, I didn't hurt, I didn't fraud. So now you have three things going against you right. Poverty drug use and now the legal system and generational curses generational curses.

Speaker 2: 41:17

Right, dad and mom were addicts.

Speaker 1: 41:19

Yeah, and you're trying to fight all of these things.

Speaker 2: 41:23

Yeah, and.

Speaker 1: 41:24

I think that's just that. That paints a picture of really how hard it is. And you you sometimes hear advice. People get like, oh, just you know like you can bootstrap yourself out of it.

Speaker 2: 41:38

Imagine doing that with no support system. Yeah, imagine having a benefit for your dead daughter on your birthday and nobody talking to you because you should have killed yourself trying to save her in their eyes. Self-righteous.

Speaker 1: 41:57

Well, and then at this point, as this builds and as it goes on, now the legal system is against you, because I bet you had warrants and court dates missed and fines, and you know now driver's license jobs.

Speaker 2: 42:17

I never had a driver's license, but they did manage to give me a license that they suspended when I got caught driving. So I would, you know, break the law and pretty much get caught on everything I did. I wasn't meant to be bad.

Speaker 1: 42:35

You didn't get away with it, and the cops, the police, probably knew you. Well, they probably knew you yeah they're mean, they're not.

Speaker 2: 42:42

It doesn't matter if you're white or black. If you're a transit drug addict, you're like shit to them and they'll treat you that way and they'll soon kill you, just like you're nothing.

Speaker 1: 42:58

It's a tough life.

Speaker 2: 42:59

Yeah, no doubt about that. It doesn't matter. Yeah, they didn't. They were never nice to me. Yeah, you know there was one. But he knew my mom, so he was nice to me.

Speaker 1: 43:12

So there was a nice police officer you met now in your late teens, early 20s, that had known you, right, yeah. And how did that? How was he nice or what did he try to help you?

Speaker 2: 43:28

I think he tried to talk to me and tell me I've seen you walk in, you're going to have to not be here, and I said you know my mom was murdered, my kid died in a fire and you know I'm struggling here. This is what I'm doing, you know. And he was just like you know. I knew your mom, you know I tried to help her, you know. So it kind of gave us a connection.

Speaker 1: 43:53

Okay.

Speaker 2: 43:54

And I'm not saying that he didn't do his job. I'm just saying that he seemed a little more nicer and compassionate than somebody would be like oh, you're just just another addict, just another prostitute. Yeah, you know you're. I can't even say the things they've said to me. It's that bad, it's horrible yeah.

Speaker 2: 44:15

It's a scarlet letter too, and once you're known and once you're in the system, that's kind of something that you're always carrying around as a but can you imagine being demeaned by somebody you hold in high regards, because I've always I wanted to be a cop as a kid, really, yeah, but I was a felon instead. But can you imagine that you know, protect and serve and they were like I don't care if your mom was murdered?

Speaker 1: 44:43

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 44:45

You know, you're just a cop.

Speaker 1: 44:46

So in that kind of height of your addiction, prostitution, poverty, what do you think someone could have done to help you or bring you out of it? If anything, is there anything someone could have done?

Speaker 2: 45:04

No, you eventually get tired of being tired and then if you meet somebody and you open to your heart, you know you might be able to move forward. You know like showing somebody, showing you love, will help you love yourself.

Speaker 1: 45:22

And you would. So just to back up a little bit too. So you went through this, through your 20s and into your 30s maybe, yeah, and into at least your late 20s, and you had four children. And this time yes. Periods of sobriety.

Speaker 2: 45:46

Periods of sobriety, basically with the, with the children.

Speaker 1: 45:50

Okay.

Speaker 2: 45:51

Four children, and all of them tested negative for drugs and alcohol.

Speaker 1: 45:57

When they were born.

Speaker 2: 45:58

Yes.

Speaker 1: 45:59

Okay, yes, so then, after you had had, you had had some twins, so you're two youngest, or twins? Yes, and so this is around 2006. So now there's four kids, you have four kids and you have a. Was it a husband or a boyfriend? Yes, okay.

Speaker 2: 46:22

We were pressured in to get married by our church, so we did get married, okay, and we stayed married to 2012, even though it wasn't a conventional marriage because I was in and out of relapsing.

Speaker 1: 46:36

You're in and out of relapsing on drugs and prostituting.

Speaker 2: 46:41

Right.

Speaker 1: 46:42

And you'd said you don't even, you're not sure biologically who the father.

Speaker 2: 46:50

Like we didn't get a paternity test on the first one I found out I was pregnant. I assumed it was his. He assumed responsibility and we went.

Speaker 1: 47:00

You went with that.

Speaker 2: 47:01

We went with that yeah.

Speaker 1: 47:03

Okay. So then 2006, you said you went on a bit of a binge after you had the twins.

Speaker 2: 47:11

No, I waited till the twins were walking around.

Speaker 1: 47:14

Okay.

Speaker 2: 47:15

Then I went on a binge but I had a very frustrating husband. He was just he'd make a preacher. Slap him is the only way to you know? Just ask nine, you know, get a job 200 miles away and say I don't have the gas to get there.

Speaker 1: 47:31

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 47:32

I mean, who does that stuff?

Speaker 1: 47:33

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 47:36

I went on a binge and probably had more arrest, you know because in 2009 I went to prison.

Speaker 1: 47:46

Okay. So, so the bit by the binge you mean back to using hard.

Speaker 2: 47:51

Yeah, yeah, and I wasn't gone a week. I would be gone six months or a year and yeah, it wasn't horrible.

Speaker 1: 48:02

Your husband is with the kids at this point.

Speaker 2: 48:04

Pretty much. Yeah, okay, he still is right now, but, like I said, if you met him, yeah, you kind of got to go wait for him to die to be able to take over he. Just, he's just like the planet of stubborn you can't. You can't do anything with him.

Speaker 1: 48:28

Are you thankful that he stayed with the kids and kind of held the?

Speaker 2: 48:33

to whatever extent, the stability that that he has honored his responsibility. But I think that he could have done better. But because I didn't do it, I can't knock what he did Exactly and I have, even though all these problems, I have a lot of honor and integrity and morals that don't waiver, whether crack or not. Yeah, you know, I didn't steal, I didn't do none of that shit. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 49:06

You know well, and he's you know he's got the four kids and he's watching you come in and out or disappear months at a time he's been doing the job and I didn't do the job, but if he would have got out of there, I would have took over, you know, and probably not relapse as much, because the guys drives you to nuts.

Speaker 1: 49:29

No, we're almost. Maybe in a way. I don't know if it's true or not, but because he could be there, it gave you the out to maybe not escape, have to.

Speaker 2: 49:41

Right. Whereas if you had no choice it might have broke my mentality a little bit, because it's pretty hard to take care of that many kids.

Speaker 1: 49:50

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 49:51

I would have had a lot of back like that, but we did pretty good. You know, okay, all of them, all in diapers and you know. But I'm not going to pretend like he didn't help me, want to escape because he's got some issues. He's still got them. Yeah, and I'm not doing it out of bias, I'm saying you know generally Sure.

Speaker 1: 50:18

So then in 2012. You said that I mean still using crack, and you were in a crack house.

Speaker 2: 50:33

And I met somebody else.

Speaker 1: 50:38

So I mean what's a lot of people listening may not quite understand. I guess you could understand, but kind of paint a picture of A functioning crack house.

Speaker 2: 50:47

So these people probably have jobs and then they get high and maybe they don't pay the rent or maybe they do, but everybody gets high in there. So it's not like it's a trap house, but it's like you know, the person who rents it probably has a job mowing grass or something and everybody gets high. You know, I didn't have a job but you know, if I came there I could say here's something and now I can have entrance, like an entrance fee Kind of bartering.

Speaker 2: 51:23

Yeah, like if you go to the club and they get the person at the door collecting the fees. So you know, and a friend of mine that was there was a safe person. He said would you like to meet my friend? And I said unless he has money, probably not. And I'm going to guarantee you guys ain't got no money.

Speaker 1: 51:43

Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:45

So he said no, he doesn't have any money. I said no, I don't want to meet him. Then Okay. And eventually I did meet him and he was reading a Bible and sitting in a hammock, so he was very endearing and sounds like kind of a relaxed view for a crack when I'm thinking of crack.

Speaker 1: 52:06

He was trying to escape the demons, but yeah, yeah, but that's seeing a guy sitting in a hammock, all peaceful reading a Bible doesn't.

Speaker 2: 52:16

It's not the picture that comes to because we're just people too, no matter what Absolutely you know and absolutely he was trying to balance the demons you know, maybe just the lifestyle or being, you know, in an addiction. It's very shameful. Yeah, if you're not getting higher, like fuck, I might as well kill myself. This is horrible. Yeah, you know, I've left my family. I've, you know, sat on the sidewalk no shoes on. I mean looking like an idiot.

Speaker 1: 52:49

Yeah, and everyone that's in a crack house situation. They're addicted. They're struggling with a lot of the same things. Maybe you did.

Speaker 2: 53:01

It's all. It's very shameful, no matter if you're prostituting or working for it or mowing a yard.

Speaker 1: 53:08

You don't want to be there, right, but those claws are right and you don't want. You know people around you Like yeah, there's the crack heads you know, you know so, but they, so you meet this guy and I mean there's probably something to this that there was a good people there can understand.

Speaker 2: 53:31

It was a really good connection. We have a lot in common. Yeah, a month apart, birthdays 10 years apart, same color eyes 10 years apart in age?

Speaker 1: 53:42

Yeah, is he older.

Speaker 2: 53:45

He's older, it's almost like soulmates.

Speaker 1: 53:47

Okay.

Speaker 2: 53:48

So so we got the you know his birthdays one month and then my birthday, and it's almost like exactly in a month apart.

Speaker 1: 53:57

Okay.

Speaker 2: 53:57

Same horoscope sign.

Speaker 1: 54:01

Yeah, but I guess the very strong connection. The part of this is you. You meet him in that Propels me out of there. Did he just kind of decide, or yeah?

Speaker 2: 54:14

Like he just packed his little army tote and like I'm moving on and I'm like where are you going? Wherever I don't have to watch you kill yourself.

Speaker 1: 54:24

Really.

Speaker 2: 54:25

Yeah, your, your belly swelled up. You look like your livers and failure. And you know, and you just, I don't know, maybe my belly was swelled full of air, you know?

Speaker 1: 54:41

okay, yeah, you know, yeah, but so he's.

Speaker 2: 54:45

He's leaving, so he told me about the, you know like the health stuff that I didn't see or know about myself.

Speaker 1: 54:54

It's kind of holding a mirror to you, yeah.

Speaker 2: 54:57

And not and being like you're, you know they, they read about in the Bible. They say that the women will load out and their legs will get skinny, and he was quoting this stuff and I'm like, oh my God, yeah, so it was kind of like, but he's holding the mirror to you and he's kind of.

Speaker 1: 55:14

Showing me what he says and you cared for him or you had this connection that you had developed in the the crack house.

Speaker 2: 55:22

I accepted the love that he was giving and I accepted the care and I followed him out of it and I said, you know, I'll do whatever it takes to be with you.

Speaker 1: 55:34

Which meant getting clean.

Speaker 2: 55:36

Right, following it out Right.

Speaker 1: 55:39

And then. So this was 2012 and you follow them out of that and by 2014,.

Speaker 2: 55:49

I'm getting my driver's license.

Speaker 1: 55:51

But I mean, I guess you've been sober since.

Speaker 2: 55:54

Yes, yes, oh yes. Cold turkey no NA, no rehab, no Nothing.

Speaker 1: 56:02

And is he still in your life? Yes, wow, yes, that's really wonderful yeah, yeah and that's not a story. You hear a lot. I mean Just walking out of it.

Speaker 2: 56:15

I'm a special person.

Speaker 1: 56:17

Okay, yeah, yeah. So you'd mention accepting the love which is kind of a bit of a theme from what you talked about earlier with your adopted or foster family, of not being able to accept the love.

Speaker 2: 56:34

It goes back to psychoanalyzing, maybe, mom.

Speaker 1: 56:37

Okay.

Speaker 2: 56:39

Couldn't accept her parents love and I somehow knew that. But I saw her accept men's love, so maybe that was the cycle, just a, I guess, speculation. Yeah, that's what I do. I cycle and analyze my life all the time.

Speaker 1: 56:58

You're reflective.

Speaker 2: 56:59

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 57:00

And I mean, are you more so? Now, reflective, with what are we? 11 years in sobriety?

Speaker 2: 57:05

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 57:06

Yeah, wow.

Speaker 2: 57:09

And I've had people offer me. You know like I'll go to the store and I still live in the area where I used to get high and people almost like, oh, would you like to? You know, no, I'm good.

Speaker 1: 57:22

You know, absolutely not.

Speaker 2: 57:24

No.

Speaker 1: 57:27

That's really incredible. So I guess in your, your reflection now, because addiction I mean it's really devastating our country especially opioids and all these different ways with the other stuff.

Speaker 2: 57:48

But, the crack is very brain. It's in your brain so like if you go to sleep you can dream about it and it sneaks in and you'll it's like you're right there again. Yeah, even no matter how many years. I think it's very powerful. I wouldn't, I wouldn't suggest anybody to try it, ever no. And so most it'll make people do things that they never thought they would do. You know, like so, clean, sober girl versus addicted girl yeah, way different. Way different people, way different attitudes, way different temperament all of it.

Speaker 1: 58:37

So if you look back at your addiction days now, what, what is what I guess is the most kind of shameful thing? Or is there something that sticks out in your mind is just, you know, it's a recurring thought that really paints the picture of your kind of worst moment during that time.

Speaker 2: 59:01

Just a shame of being a object and prostitute for 20 years. It was shameful. You know, when I would walk down the street I would put my head down. Of course there was times that I would be like a show off or something, but most of the time you're ashamed. Yeah, I mean who wants to be for sale?

Speaker 1: 59:25

Yeah, exactly, you know yeah.

Speaker 2: 59:27

And who wants to take the chance of getting in a car with people who pray on those. You know like I would get in cars and sometimes I would just know this thing going to go well.

Speaker 1: 59:41

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 59:42

And the look to look at the people but you're kind of stuck. I'm just saying, like you can look at the people and tell if they are going to hurt you.

Speaker 1: 59:54

God, I'm not good.

Speaker 2: 59:55

And I always had a premonition, but it didn't save me. Didn't get you out of it every time it was like this is a cop, okay, you know every time. Or this is a, this is somebody, I don't know how. Most of the time they don't give eye contact. That's how you know. Okay, you know. So they, they don't want to humanize you things you pick up over time.

Speaker 2: 1:00:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so um that's what I marvel over, though, is the times that I knew I was in danger or being set up, and you didn't get out of it. But just the idea that I knew exactly almost what was gonna happen.

Speaker 1: 1:00:39

Yeah, so so, through all of this, if you had somebody who's a teenage girl maybe living in a situation Like you were in when you were, a teenager before your cycle of addiction started. What would you? What advice could you give to somebody that's in that now? What lesson they learn from?

Speaker 2: 1:01:08

maybe, Something that you can't really learn but somehow have to get is self-love, and that will stop all the Sabotaging, all the drug use, all the shameful activities. Because you know, and that's that's what I try to instill in my children, because they have some problems as well. You know, nobody's gonna love you like your mom or dad. But you gotta get that self-love. I can't give it to you. Yeah, you know. Self-acceptance, self-love. You know this is who I am.

Speaker 2: 1:01:44

And maybe if you would have had some more of that, then that would have helped you, yeah, and I think that, being codependent for so many years, you know just once, once you start making accomplishments, it gives you confidence. Okay, so like when I got the driver's license, when I Started helping animals you know victories right, and then when I got this.

Speaker 2: 1:02:15

When I got the GD, it took like two years just to pass math, I mean, you know, and I was like, hey, I didn't ever thought I could do that, but I can, I can do that and I can do it by myself, even if I don't have a partner or a family or a support system.

Speaker 1: 1:02:33

Yeah, so, and it's. It's incredible how much you've turned that around, and I think you kind of said something there that's. Maybe another lesson is little victories.

Speaker 2: 1:02:45

You know drivers Consonants.

Speaker 1: 1:02:47

GED, even if it doesn't, even if you still seem so far behind, yeah, what you think you should be or what other people think you should, maybe just getting little things and doing little things that are helpful and productive for yourself, and that kind of that becomes a cycle in a new habit of a new pattern.

Speaker 2: 1:03:14

Exactly a cycle of success and that's how you change your life. You start with little things, cycles, patterns um. A couple years ago I used to smoke cigarettes and then I Got hospitalized for COPD and I said I'm not gonna do it no more. And I saw my dad on the those breathing machines you know, like with the COVID, said this is my next step fucking breathing machine. So I put the cigarettes down, you know that was the hardest. Part of cigarettes of all of it?

Speaker 1: 1:03:54

Oh sure, I love it.

Speaker 2: 1:03:56

Yeah, you know so I gave my cigarettes away and I haven't looked back, 2020 October.

Speaker 1: 1:04:06

Yeah well, that is um. That's another part of your cycle of success. Yeah, well, that's the willpower I have is Tremendous seems like it, yeah, so um, really an incredible story, and you know, we're. I'm very appreciative for you coming on sharing and talking about this and Hopefully this can help somebody who, like like we talked about, might be in that situation or Inspire somebody to know that you can make it out.

Speaker 2: 1:04:42

Yeah or just everybody said I was gonna die like mom, mm-hmm, yeah, and I didn't, yeah, but I did get hit by a car on purpose at the same age as she was, and it was like it's weird how your subconscious does stuff like that. I think, yeah, like People programming you're gonna die like your mom and then, like subconsciously, you decide to do something that Almost kills you.

Speaker 1: 1:05:15

Cycles. All right to yeah. Well, thank you for coming on and sharing it. Okay, Um thank you for tuning in. We'll see you next time.

Speaker 2: 1:05:25

Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:05:30

So the episode you just watched towards the end there we were trying to watch time and she had to go to work, so we didn't get to quite cover all of the things that we needed to cover In order to tell her story fully, but I wanted to let you know that After her sobriety she's been 11 years sober now. She has got her GED and she does volunteer work with animals and she's currently working on her bachelor's degree for addiction counseling. So really an incredible story about perseverance and recovery. Hope you enjoyed it.